Putting the Pieces of the Puzzle Together: Holistic Wellness with Mira Taylor of Moon and Rune

Join Mira Taylor and I for a conversation about holistic and integrative therapy.  Mira is an NLP practitioner and an IAOTH certified coach.  She works with a diverse background of students and is available for single sessions and has courses as well.

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome to Blue Collar Mystics. The under-the-hood approach to the depths of human consciousness. So many mysteries. So little time. So many big words. That's why we aim to take the mystical and make it practical. Usable in your everyday life. And you know, we want to hear from you. We want to hear your story. What happened when you started asking yourself the real questions? Like, who am I? What is this? Is it a hologram? Is this some kind of weird cosmic joke? Hey, these are the questions that we are trying to get to the bottom of as we explore the final rabbit hole together. Here, that's Blue Collar Mystics. All right, everybody, welcome to the show, the Blue Collar Mystics. I got a banger for you today. As usual, the show is just getting better and better, and I'm really excited to introduce someone I've been looking into her work for a little while, Moon and Rune, Myra Taylor, an integrative therapist. Welcome to the show. Thanks so much for taking a little bit of time to come and chat with us.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Of course. Thank you very much for having me on. One of the things I really appreciate the most about your show that we have a shared sensibility in is that I, in my work as an integrative uh therapist and as a holistic business consultant, make every effort to try and make a sense of spirituality practical to everyday life. So I really love that you guys have that sense of approach to okay, it's not just going and sitting in a temple somewhere cross-legged with incense and chimes in the background. Like, how do we actually make this tangible and real and and approachable for people in a way that really does bring them a holistic sense of wellness, whether that's in personal life and what they approach and their sense of purpose or in business life?

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Yeah, I mean, that stuff it all folds together, right? And so um, yeah, it's it's just as important to understand uh the inner the inner reflects the outer anyway.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

So, you know, that's whether you're at home or at business, people dichotomize those all the time.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Yeah, it's it's true. No, I'm glad that you're on the same page as that. That's definitely where that's definitely where you know my head is at and what we're trying to um really emphasize because it doesn't have to be super complicated, we don't have to use pretentious uh vernacular and uh all that stuff. Uh we also um want to feel like a sense of purpose and a connection to what we do and how we spend our time in the day. I mean, there's a lot there's a lot wrapped up in uh identity. I'm sure we could probably talk a lot about that, but before we get into uh some deep stuff, I'd love it if you just kind of introduce yourself and talk about how you got into you know that doing this and uh and what what is moon and rune uh and uh and all that, uh, just to just to give us a little uh place to push off from.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

So I will basically start with uh why I became an integrative therapist. Uh and for those that don't know what integrative therapy is, as opposed to more traditional talk therapy, which I still provide, um, but that with integrative therapy, I am approaching the client from an intuitive rapport. Um I am allowing myself to have a connection with them in a spiritual capacity where I can intuate or share with them concepts of psychology, philosophy, and spirituality in a way that resonates with them on a personal level to make the biggest uh transitions or evolutions for them in a more whole or holistic way, in a more sustainable way. Uh so the difference with this is that most of the time, from a purely psychology perspective, it can be a little bit too rationalistic and reductionist, a little bit too analytical. You know, they call it psychoanalysis for a reason, but that opening up that space of spirituality, that believing part of the brain, which is actually the irrational part of the psyche, the feminine principle of the psyche, is just as important to build and develop and grow and appreciate and respect for each of us in that concept as it is the rational side. So I work a lot with people just on connecting to that sense of themselves again and also really redefining words like irrational to a space where it's accepting and where you can really get that whole sense of wellness from it, but also looking at how these concepts apply at an underlying archetypal level, not just in personal life, but in business life too, and how we can become more congruent in our belief systems and also how we can identify belief systems as simple as they can be that aren't working for us. Um, so you know, part of this happened for me because I started in marketing and I realized that the reason I loved marketing was because of how much I was learning about psychology in it, and how much learning about that psychology helped me go through my own process of awareness with belief systems. Because I had a lot of belief systems about why marketing was the only avenue I could approach a level of success in as a professional. And the more I did it, the more I realized how incongruent it was with my own spirit that I was using a skill set, the ability to influence the human mind, which of course everyone gets a little bit funky about, but it's the truth of it, whether you're a therapist or a marketing person, sure, no, it isn't like the way I was using it, right? So I was influencing the human mind to make it think to exploit its unholeness or its belief that it's unwell. And so basically, as I went through that process, I asked myself, okay, I know what this skill set is. I'm very good at understanding psychology, I'm very good at understanding how the mechanics of the human mind works, and especially how subconscious integration works, uh, because that's a massive part of marketing, is the subconscious side of it and the irrational archetypal side. How can I use this in a way that I actually feel congruent, that I actually feel healthy and like I like myself for doing it? Uh, and so Moon and Rune was born from that. And so everything that I do now is purely from that marketing psychology mindset about selling people themselves so that they actually truly buy in and believe in themselves and believe in a sense of purpose that's personal to them and get a little bit checked out from being too overly connected and involved with the exterior in a way that distracts us from that interior reality that we deserve to focus and develop.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Are you saying that I'm brainwashed, Myra?

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Uh so it depends. We all have what I would refer to as programming.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

So we are all born into this life to experience a somewhat lesser evolved state of consciousness for our initial state of ego development. That's an important part of the trajectory of the soul, and ego development is important. That said, there are a lot of people that get stuck in that first archetypal awareness of ego development. Um, so this plays a large role into inner child traumas, our choices in adolescence about how we've defined certain things for ourselves as well as ourself, uh, and how that becomes a part of the integrative therapy process to deconstruct those belief systems and those self-defining features of the ego so that you can become more self-actualized and self-like rooted within self while still having an ego, persona, or archetype that is healthy, that isn't brainwashed. So basically, this is about learning how an ego can become mindless or blind to unhealthy behaviors just because it thinks that its self-worth is in that archetypal um projection or expression. Uh, so for me, on a more personal level, because I always like to share that with people, I lived in the like emo, woe is me, the world to get me archetype as an ego development for a long time, starting in my adolescence. And it carried through into adulthood and re-expressed itself when I was in one of my most unhealthy environments as both relationship, personal, and work. Um, but it took me accepting that when you're sad, listening to sad songs over and over again only makes that worse, right? Um, so a lot of this is also about getting people to own their ego blindnesses and when they are are sitting in an in an ego that is not serving them or that's unhealthy for them and how they can evolve it.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Yeah, uh good answer. I kind of threw you into the briar patch there. Maybe a better question is like, how am I brainwashed? And might be a good thing for everybody to maybe think about.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

Well, uh beliefs shape reality. If you believe that you are brainwashed, okay, you are. Again, this goes into the concept of mental manipulation and people having sort of an autonomic uh connotation to that being like an evil thing, right? So, as uh as an integrative therapist, I have no issue sending people to hypnotherapists, is actually something that is incredibly beneficial to people, to and that is technically a form of brainwashing, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Sometimes it's not about right, right? That's consciously done though, right? Like that's not something that's subconsciously just you know, like uh you shot into your psyche without permission. That's a little bit different, uh, in my opinion. But like maybe programming is a more accurate word because you know similar, you know. We're all you know, we're all there's definitely some conditioning going on. We don't have to break through, you know, these uh layers and these models, these maps that we they're all old as we grow anyway, right? Like you grow up to a certain level of awareness. It's like you're saying you're in the victim consciousness for a while, and then you get to step up, you know, into another level. You still don't see we still don't see everything.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

You do the opposite, which is that you go into the hero complex or the or the rebel complex overcompensate. Uh-huh. So, you know, there's a middle ground that happens with that too. But yes, I I also did that. Okay. So usually, uh and there is a dichotomy there for most people. I work with uh what's referred to as archetypal psychology all the time with people because it helps us see those subconscious integrations. It's not really as though creation and the way you experience creation is intending to brainwash you, it's about developing an awareness of those things that are present so that you can have that more macro style uh perspective of the world. So a lot of what I work with too with people is starting to build a rapport or self-dictionary around symbolism, especially. So, one of the main things that works for subconscious marketing with things has to do with symbology and accepted belief systems we have about what something means to us, which can be as simple as what the color red means to us. Okay. To open people's minds up to that, in the Western world, there's like certain specific connotations to it being like aggressive or you know, related to like anger and violence, like all those things. I saw red cultures in the world that that it doesn't mean that at all, right? So it's about getting to a space where people actually appreciate what those archetypal patterns are, that more macro perspective from what is technically the more irrational mind, right? Because red is just red to the objective rational mind. It's the symbolic, irrational mind that holds those subconsciously integrated beliefs about what red symbolizes to us or why it's presenting to us at a certain time, that becomes the way in which people uh sort of move away from that brainwashed ego blindness. Because it really is just like that's that whole concept of lifting the veil. I actually truly believe, um, like as someone who's worked around a lot of concepts of Gnosticism and some of the more original constructs or understandings of of who and what Christ was, and like that sense of spirituality, I have a personal belief that that is the blindness that was being healed, not necessarily like a literal physical blindness that they would talk about. So developing that new sense of sight in the world that sees the irrational, the spiritual, the symbolism, um, the metaphor of life and what that means to you is really important to getting to that space of more wholeness, um, of feeling healthier and feeling more in control of your own life, to not feeling like those things uh aren't choice points for you. Once you recognize the symbology, you recognize the choice point behind the symbology as well.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Right on. So when you talk about archetypes, you're talking about like Jungian archetypes. What's your sort of model there?

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Oh, that's so there's all kinds. Um there are Jungian archetypes, but you know, the thing I uh do with my clients that is something I've done for myself is accepting our wholeness as every archetype. So for a lot of people in the Western world, they sign, they like have this a tendency to attach to one, right? That like you'll see like a deity in mythology or uh a persona in a story and and recognize an archetype that's present in it and say this is who and what I am only. So I work with people by using something called an archetypal wheel that basically creates each of the archetypes as uh expressions of behavior. So uh the example would be for Libra, it's I love. Okay. For um for Leo, it's I create. Uh there's another one, I think for Aquarius, it's I invent. So each of these things are attributes or characteristic traits that each person can accept as parts of their more whole self, right? Like we all invent things, we all create, we all create things, we all love things, we all nurture things. Um, you know, these are sort of those archetypal expressions, but in that deconstruction away from thinking that you're just one, you are able to look at those statements as individual embodiments. Uh, so that's a part of that ego blindness development as well. It's like we're born into the the archetype that is the deepest lesson we need to learn in this lifetime that we chose to learn, and then getting to that space of awareness of okay, what did I, why did I want to learn this one most specifically, and how does it play into the role of letting each of the archetypes exist and express through me? And how can I build better relationships and rapports or understandings of these archetypes? So uh the example of that would be, you know, most people who have that rebel archetype are actually uh authoritarian rulers, and that's their shadow. That those, you know, when you think you're one archetype like the rebel, for example, that you are also almost definitely the opposite of that, and that that's your shadow. And accepting that archetypal expression or understanding about the ways in which the rebel and the ruler act exactly the same in in somewhat oppositional ways helps people really bridge to that space of wholeness where the shadow is the shadow is actually integrated, and you're not doing those somewhat mindless, unhealthy behaviors that a lot of people uh express from that more young youth psychology perspective.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I'm looking up a wheel right now. Um I see a bunch of different ones.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

I can share one with you if you want to put it for the audience, yeah, to uh as like a link. But it is basically about getting to that space of really owning, you know, that concept of as above, so below, that we're the whole universe in one and and outside of ourselves all at once, is why I work with that wheel so that people accept that they're more than just one thing, uh, for example, but also how they can develop an evolution away from certain archetypal expressions that are present for them. So the example I would give for that is a lot of people, uh, the two that are usually the most uncomfortable for people are Scorpio and Saturn uh archetypes. So Saturn is all about disruptive energy, and most people immediately appreciate that as it must be something that's gonna cause a problem in my life. Instead of thinking about, okay, how can I actively define and evolve my understanding of disruption as something that can be a benefit to me? Um, for the Scorpio archetype, it's the the I statement for that is I penetrate. Okay, for most people, they hear that saying and they're like, whoa, I'm uncomfortable. I don't want to do that. I don't want to be that anyway. But the the way you evolve away from that as something that's self-rejective is to say, okay, what are the ways that I can be penetrating in a way that's beneficial for me and others? So for example, the mind can be a penetrating thing. Uh, belief systems that we share can be a penetrating thing in a good way. Like for me as an integrative therapist, if I give a new belief system that's a penetrating enough thought that it implants itself in the subconscious and changes an existing belief system that wasn't working, that's a beneficial penetrating force. But this is the main way in which I work with people a lot is getting them to really deconstruct away anything that they've defined as a part of their whole self as something that is unhealthy or that takes and actively evolving into that space of where do I want to see it as something that creates benefit for me and others?

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Uh definitely uh with you on the shadow aspects of that. And uh look, would there be 12 archetypes in that? Is it 12?

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Well, you can evolve that too. So yeah, the the basic arrangement is is 12, and that's uh those archetypal awarenesses exist through almost all of human history from from the simplicity of the clock we have on the wall to the the calendar in the months of the year to the zodiac to mythe like mythological pantheons, right? This is this is the existing set, okay. But in that, there can also be an understanding that by working with the concept of wholeness, you are you automatically take it from 12 to 13, because now there's 12 individual expressions and a holy collective expression making that 13th. Um, similarly from the Jungian perspective, this is where the concept of the quaternity came from, as a concept of wholeness as opposed to the existing spiritual perspective of the Trinity, which basically was taking the Trinity and saying, okay, well, there's the three, and then there is the total, and that makes a fourth. Uh, so again, it's all about people taking the existing and saying, This doesn't have to stay this way just because I resonate with it. I resonate with it because there's important information for me to learn about my past and some of my archetypal uh expressions and embodiments that are present for me now, and how can I how can I accept those in a way that I am willing to change them? Um, so that you know, there's a quote on the front page of my website. The curious paradox is that we accept when we accept ourselves exactly as we are, that's when we can change. That is the that is the majority of what archetypal awareness and understanding within integrative therapy is for, to say I get this third-party perspective through something like mythology or symbolism that helps me actually really accept what's present for me as a character trait and then change it instead of being uh like ego blind to it and and having that shadow aspect.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Right on, yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I like I like the model. I um I'm fascinated with all types of different you know tools like this, you know, they everything has its own use, so it's cool to hear you speak about this as your kind of I would say specialty. Would you would you think so? How does this relate to um to identity, right? So because you're saying like you're the hole of the wheel and you gotta you know accept this part of yourself and then change it, um or maybe not, right? Like maybe you're just like, well, I'm not gonna do that.

SPEAKER_02 21:06

Well, sometimes it's just sometimes it's just about changing the perspective that you have of it. Sure, right? So for some people, they may have an archetypal expression that they've decided to reject because someone else exterior to them didn't like it as an expression, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's a bad expression, right? So um I'll give an example from one of my uh sessions today, in which I'm I'm working with someone to really step into leadership capacities. And as I've been working with her, I've realized that she already is a leader, she's just working for other people who are titled leaders and don't act like leaders, and have told her that she isn't a leader because she's not acting in the way that they do. But this is just to give an example of you know, we've all had those examples in our life where someone tells us that this is the way to be something, or I don't like the way that you are because it doesn't suit me, and getting to a space Of awareness of whether or not that's held a narrative in our mind that's created a shadow or an ego blindness to that part of ourselves because someone else didn't like it, instead of accepting, well, how can I see the benefit of this? How can I like it? And and see the truth of the behavior. But sometimes it's also accepting that you know a behavior isn't working either.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

So it's a great thing, really. Yes, exactly. When it comes to the leader thing, that's a really hard uh thing to even accept. There's such a stigma around the idea of being a leader. I would say 99%, especially in our country in our country, our culture, you know, 99% of the people who are in positions of leadership are not leaders by my definition of the word at all.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

So it just isn't that interesting, right? Because I completely agree with you. I did I wrote, and it was cathartic for me, but I wrote an eight-page article uh for Brains Magazine about why that leader archetype is not actually leadership. Leadership is all about self-actualization and self-defining and having a sense of purpose that is unique and personal to you and expressing that in a way that inspires and motivates others, not checking the box and saying I learned how to talk like a leader at this class. I took this certificate and that makes me a leader. Uh, I have this title and that's what makes me a leader.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Yeah, I think most of it would come down to that, right? Like I'm entitled, so I told somebody what to do, and that makes me a leader.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

Well, so the irony is that this is where the rebel and the ruler archetype are actually very similar.

unknown 23:36

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Because the rebel fights that ruler, but it's still dictatorial about it because they also want everyone to see their way, right? So this is one of those archetypal awarenesses that's really helpful for people. That if you're in, if you exist in the rebel archetype and there's a ruler in your life that's driving you fucking crazy, that's because that's your shadow. This is the conscious responsibility that no one wants to take, basically.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Oh, of course. Yeah, that was that's the most uncomfortable thing ever.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

The thing about working with that wheel that's really nice is let's say you look at it and you see a bunch that stand out to you as like, yes, these are definitely my things, taking the next step to look at what opposes it and seeing where that archetype is expressing itself in your life and why it irritates you. Uh, to keep in line with Jungian psychology, everything that irritates us about others has something to teach us about ourselves. So, again, that rebel ruler archetype or or like the administrative, this is the way it is archetype, have loads to learn about each other because you know, and we even see that in in movies and stories, right? That there's like the defined bad guy, and then there's what the bad guy sees as the bad guy and the hero in many of these uh dualistic narratives. Uh, an example I always kind of give to that effect is Batman and the Joker, and how similar they actually were as people, and why that arrangement, why that fight was happening, uh, because they were so unwilling to see themselves in each other, basically. Just to give an example of one. There's all sorts of that actually. Um, and yes, the other one that will always happen, or usually almost always happen, is the victim then becoming the hero and then realizing that you're not actually the hero, you're the martyr.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Yeah. I mean, that brings us back to what we're talking about, the overcompensation idea, right? And so, you know, whenever we see that person who triggers us, and we're like, oh man, you know, like you're talking about those two opposites. You know, it's back to how how do I how do I do this, or how am I, you know, uh programmed, or you know, what are the what what are those things and like checking checking those things out to give a little bit of objective uh criticism of our own uh you know situation where we're at our plight. Uh but I I love that uh I love that you're pointing out the similarities in the two uh that are so dual, right? Like the Joker and the Batman. Um we have uh we see a lot of that, I think, in in life.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

And um yeah, we can uh we can paradox is the nature of creation, so it's really just getting people to a point where they're comfortable in sitting in the paradox and seeing it.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

Yeah, I definitely uh I definitely agree. And then uh and then the story sort of starts to resolve at that point, but uh you know, I think it has a lot to do too with um with integration. So, you know, how do you work with people uh to kind of get them able to open that space up, right? Like it's gotta be a little bit jarring um to well example.

SPEAKER_02 26:50

So, you know, this is this is why I very actively use intuition uh in what I do and why I why I teach about intuition. I use uh well like what I refer to as wellness linguistics with people, which has a couple different connotations to it. One, it has to do with our ability to work with our concept of what words already mean to us and why. And then also looking at the way in which we're using words to define some of those behaviors, right? Um, but from that more from the perspective of using language to get people to a space where they're comfortable with accepting some of those uh blindnesses in their life, it really is about getting us to a space or getting a client to a space where I can use something like metaphor or symbology to get them to have a third-party perspective first and then see themselves in it.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

So that is like the biggest uh thing that works with this is giving people a metaphor or scenario or a third-party perspective and asking them their viewpoint of it as a third party, and then re-interjecting a conversation into it of okay, do you see how you're yourself in this? Or how do you see yourself in this? That's usually the most effective way that I use with clients that actually gets those like Eureka uh Archimedes moments from them, where they actually have like a genuinely massive shift in perspective. Um, so you know, most people, even with self-standards, right? Most people use very different standards for themselves that are much unkind, like much unkinder, much less compassionate, much less nurturing, much less self-aware and accepting than the standards they use for others. So that's another way that I kind of use that concept of wellness linguistics and and archetypal subconscious integration to get people to accept when they're defining, they are allowing their beliefs about themselves to actively define a word away from them that they're giving away to others that you know are are very similar people, right? Uh so the leadership one, for example, you know, if you ask someone to define what a good leader would be, and they realize that the the people in their life that they've been defining as leaders don't fit that definition to your very point, okay. Well, we're no longer going to call that person a leader realistically, and we're gonna redefine it to what we know leadership is, um, or or what friendship is, right? Or or what love is. So the other extension of this is working what is referred to as uh like somatic awareness or mind-body awareness, and how it relates to words. Uh, so with friendship, for example, if you go out and you hang out with a friend and you feel more dispirited and more down on yourself after every time you hang out with that friend, why are we actively defining and using words to believe that that's friendship? Like these are the simple ways that the spirituality comes into and converges with the psychology that makes it more practical, but also makes the biggest shifts and differences in people's lives because they stop defining things as what they're not. Whether that's leadership, whether that's love, whether that's friendship, whether that's family, uh, whether that's your the kind of standards you have for yourself. Like these are the most important parts of what I reconstruct for people from the existing architecture that they've been given, uh, as far as their relationship with their self and relationship with others, especially.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Yeah, that's cool. So um, so through advertising, you were doing marketing, advertising for a while, not feeling great about uh how you were applying those skills and that knowledge, uh, and and that kind of shifted you over into this world to try and use it uh for good, right?

SPEAKER_02 30:47

Like uh maybe or for wholeness. Always trying to be whole than good.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Fair enough. Um, and I, you know, I I think that's another thing too, where you may have mentioned kind of at the top uh the idea of wholeness or the idea of uh abundance. We're we're really sold uh often, it's like so much in this in this sort of movement. It's like you're everything you need, uh except if you buy my course, right? Like if you do this thing, then you'll be whole. But you're almost there. You look like you almost made it. But let me send you to them to you know to my landing page. Uh, and in this sort of world, too, it's it starts to seep in. So it's a it's a really weird balance um when it comes to spirituality and business. Um, though I think it's a very natural one too, when you start to peel the layers back. I'd love to hear your perspective on that and just how you kind of uh present that whole thing. Because I know you do some business uh sort of coaching as well.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

Uh yes. So, you know, I I am doing uh I have a webinar that I'm doing tomorrow evening called uh making space for spirit in business, because there are plenty of us who understand, for example, that a workplace environment can feel de-spiriting. And yet when you think of and bring up the concept of there being spiritual energy and presence in business, which of course there must be, right? There's a reason there have been so many deities that oversaw wealth and money. I can promise you they are a part of business too, is getting that space awareness of accepting that if a space feels uninspiring, unmotivating, and de-spiriting, what do you need to put in it? Spiritual sensibilities. There has to be an openness from companies to actually accept that a practical approach and awareness of what it means to take care of not just the spiritual wellness of the individuals that make it up, but of the spirit of the business as a whole and accepting that it has one is an important part of what makes a business sustainably healthy and well. But it's also about deconstructing that dichotomy of thinking that the things that work in personal relationships shouldn't also have space in business relationships or that there's some difference, right? So uh, you know, you think about a family unit, for example, and what makes a family unit functional, those same archetypal arrangements that make a family unit functional are, or personal relationships and friendships functional, are exactly the same dynamics that should be present in the way that people interact and engage with each other in business environments, too. There's a reason that it works well in one and that it definitely also works well in the other. It's just changing those again, those belief systems that people have about business. So part of what I do with with the holistic consultancy for businesses is even expressing uh to leadership, you know, check yourself on your beliefs. Because as a leader in business, your beliefs shape a lot of what people experience in the business, how spiritually or holistically well the business is, and whether or not uh, you know, you're even congruent in those belief systems. There are tons of business leaders that propound that they believe believe in something from a marketing standpoint, but that their actions and behaviors and actual personal belief systems don't technically embody or align with that. Um, but it it can be as simple as you know, you walk into a business and you ask the average person that works there, do you think that it is you know morally acceptable to not have to work incredibly hard for your money? Most people actually have a belief system that it's immoral to earn a decent income if you aren't working incredibly hard at it. Is that what any of us actually want? No, right? All of us want the smarter, not harder model. So it's getting to that space even in businesses and at the individual employee levels, but also at the leadership levels of of really embodying those beliefs so that you can work smarter, not harder, so that you don't have people that feel burnt out because they think that the harder they work, the more they truly are worth the income they're receiving. Um and there's you know, somewhat more complex and yet simple uh, you know, belief systems in that regard. But it really is just getting people to that space and business of appreciating that practical sense of belief as spirituality and not just thinking of it as uh like a faith or a religion.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

So, like not so dogmatic. It's a culture, really, at the end of the day, right? Like, and that's I think what you're pointing out is the obvious hypocrisy between a lot of uh corporate entities, their culture that they built, and then what they actually do and believe in their own time. Um yeah, there's uh there's a lot, there's a lot to that um really to uh unpack, like as far as like how a certain product or service is perceived and perception is in marketing, right? Perception is reality. So uh it it's kind of an interesting uh thing. But I think people can spot the phony uh ness as well, right? Like you can see that incongruence between uh what someone does and what they don't do, you know, as far as building something, and of course, we all want to work less, but the truth is if you're gonna create something, you have to uh invest at least some amount of time into it.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

Well, okay, let's think about how work's being defined. Because for the average person, people hear the word work and there's already a subconscious integration or understanding that that must mean that it will feel difficult and like suffering.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

Work can be fun. Work is supposed to be fun. So you know, again, this just plays into that whole concept of even the simplicity of what do you believe work means? If you automatically think that working hard means that it's gonna like suck and be unfun, that's a belief system to change. The though, like it's not gonna feel hard to feel in flow with something. And that is actually what we're supposed to be sort of moving toward as a society is that space of flow state uh in business and and like business dynamics that requires a synergy that most existing corporate leadership uh doesn't want to give credence to, because they even teach people you know not to be friends with people in business. There is no there's no connection between you and another person if you don't have some sort of kinship to them or or like connection to them, right? You can't have synergy without connection. So these are all kind of the like underlying belief systems of the existing business model that aren't working that I am trying to help change or at least make the the ego of business less blind to. Because just like humans have egos, the business industry and businesses have egos too.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of these things that we're taught that are like these like memes in society or whatever basically are bullshit. It's like uh, you know, business is based on relationships at the end of the day. If like my somebody that I am endeared to is offering the same service for like a more expensive price, I'm still gonna go with them. And then we might have a conversation too, right? Like I'm going to negotiate with them. But I but yeah, I think it's often just kind of um, I don't know, a lot of the a lot of the ideas like um, you know, people selling out, everyone has a sell out, you know, these types of ideas, and just the general, you know, the state of our society that we're in. It's it's a kind of uh uh I would say degenerative um lack of lack of uh lack of values or ethics for the most part, right? Like that's just the state of of society right now. But I don't think a lot of those things are actually true. You know, these are these are things that we operate under the auspices of, like, you know, it's it's not it's not personal, it's business. Well, I'm gonna take it personally.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

Well, and and people are in business, so of course it's personal, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Of course it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:01

This is the this is the exact thing that I'm talking about with it, where you know, in business, there is one of the hugest things I talk about bringing back into business is the feminine part of the psyche that has been totally like pushed away. So people don't feel nourished in nurtured or nourished in business because it's the feminine principle of the mind, whether biologically male or female, that gives that sense of nurturing. Right now, we are usually in a business world that's totally paternalistic and like that more task toxic masculine of everything's competition. I have to win, I have to be above others. I like there's no sense of cooperation or nurturing that's present in a lot of these businesses. And that is basically what's causing them to fail in the end, because they can't sustain, you can't sustain that model, and you can't sustain a workforce or a synergy or a flow for your business if you have employees that don't feel nurtured or taken care of. Uh, this is something that actually in the East they're far better about when it comes to businesses, but that's because from a from a like a even a faith and religious standpoint, they have a very different perspective of what feminine and masculine is and whether they're allowed to show up in certain parts of society. In the West, there's like weird, subconsciously programmed, integrated, uh like brainwashing and beliefs that the business world is a man world. Even though more women work in it now, you know, myself as a woman that worked in it, part of the reason I left it is because I was, it was made very clear to me that I couldn't be nurturing, that I couldn't be compassionate, that I couldn't be collaborative, that that was something that was viewed as something that was harmful by the leadership above me, but understood by the collective and the employees that I worked with as something that benefited them and that made things better. Um, so that's that's something that I always kind of remind people too, if they're in those environments, is when you go to act, act congruently with your spirit, but think more so about how your actions, behaviors, and and and values are affecting yourself and the collective within a business, as opposed to how someone whose leadership or above you is going to take them. Because that is usually that fear of how the leader is going to take it, is what keeps a lot of us, even in the workforce, from being congruent uh with things that you know our spirit wants for ourself and for others.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Yeah, and we'll get on you for walking away because like the truth is the culture is not going to conform to your values, it's just not gonna happen. You know what I mean? It just won't. Like you can go into an office of like hundreds and hundreds of people and like you're competing against all the energy of those people who have conformed to a specific cultural standard, you know, it's its own game.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

I'll agree to disagree. I'm very certain I'm going to change that industry. It's my purpose in life.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

Well, I mean, good for you. But my point, my point is is simply like if you go into I don't know, a church and you're like, well, I'm gonna be a harlot or whatever, right? Like, and you guys are all gonna conform to my wishes. Like, I it just there's an energy there that's created by the by the group, by the culture. And so challenging that it's difficult, you know what I mean? Like, um, so whenever you're in like a corporate environment like the one that you left, you know, you're like, I I have values, I have ideals, I want to share these with other people, and you guys, of course, you come down on that, and you you you play by your rule book, and so those two things just aren't you know in harmony with one another, right? So, like you left. But my point was, you know, it's like what like like uh all the all the all the all the adults prattle to the babe, you know what I'm saying? Like that's how it works. We we don't we don't get the opportunity to influence an entire like we can influence stuff, but you're not gonna like change an entire like that's an interesting belief system to have because Christ was one person and changed the belief system of millions.

SPEAKER_02 42:55

Martin Luther King was one person who changed the belief system of millions. Maya Angelou was one person who changed the belief system of millions. That's a belief system I would check with with yourself because you have that ability as a posit as a podcaster.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Well, yeah, well, that's why I reject their cultures, you know what I'm saying? Like, you have to create something new, you don't go into that and then it conforms to you, you know. I'm saying, like Jesus didn't Jesus did his own thing, right? He didn't join a political movement, he didn't join a corporation or like some group.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Well, if you ask the Romans, he was pretty political, but that that that's spiritual history.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

Um but yeah, my my point is that he didn't go into the synagogue and make them all you know, like go conform to his way.

SPEAKER_02 43:37

Oh no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

You know what I'm saying? Like he did his thing, and as a leader, he he influenced people outside of that brainwashed system, you know.

SPEAKER_02 43:46

Like these systems exactly what I mean about the rebel archetype being unhealthy. Because what does the rebel do? It tries to force itself back into those societies, right? Yep, it tries to force itself and its belief systems on others, which is the very Reason it left that environment and didn't like the environment. Well, so basically, you know, the rebel leaves those environments or fights those environments because it doesn't like that there's leadership there that wants everyone to think the same way. But the rebel does the same thing by trying to force its viewpoint on the leadership. So I'm not trying to force myself on the industry at all. I there's a clear desire for it at this point. Um, and so I'm basically aligning with the spaces that are showing an interest with it. And the reality is that the spaces that show an interest in it are the ones that are going to survive. The corporations and businesses that are not showing an interest in the spiritual wellness of their employees are going to die away. That is just the nature of evolution because those businesses are sick right now. Like from a metaphorical perspective, there is unwellness in those businesses. Things that are unwell and stay unwell, don't survive. So it's even trying to get people to like understand that model of you know, if you are in a sick system, get out because sick things die away. But that's a part of the evolutionary process, and that happens for a reason. Uh, so as those environments are starting to realize that things aren't working and are reaching out to you know, consultants like me who are willing to basically show them how to change the way that they're doing business, and there's got to be a level of humility there, which for some of those businesses won't happen because part of the reason their leadership doesn't work is because of how arrogant they are, right? Uh, but that bringing those sensibilities back is what will help businesses evolve into the the new age that is occurring for most of us at this point. Uh, like to your point, most people now see the deer park truck that says nature delivered to your door, and that tries that from a marketing perspective tries to make everything about that look ecological and natural and friendly. And most people see that now and go, that's BS. You're delivering a stolen natural resource in a van that sucks petroleum in a plastic bottle and telling me that it's nature. Right? So most people are are effectively aware of those sort of incongruences in things like marketing and in business now. And it those businesses can either become congruent or die away because people will just stop buying those products when they see that level of incongruence. I'm very happy how uh unbrainwashed the majority of society has become, especially over the last three years, to those levels of incongruence in business and marketing, especially.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Right on. Yeah, I mean, you gotta see through uh you got to get your water somehow, though. You know, water's uh people are not gonna stop buying water. But I get your point, right? Like the whole, you know, uh the hypocrisy of it. There's still a way, uh, and I think a lot of people to to get into the climate stuff, like people blame themselves a lot when 70% of the issue is with gigantic large corporations like you know, Deer Park or whoever, whomever, right? Like all these different conglomerate gigantic companies. It's like, dude, I'm not like it's not my fault that climate change is happening because I left my lamp on while I was on vacation. You know what I mean? There's smokestacks down the street that are like just pouring soot into the air, you know, and I think it's very convenient to just be able to blame people at home, you know what I'm saying, for trying to keep their heat on or whatever it is, when it's really not the majority, like the regular person who is making it making this an issue. Um, water, I think, is you know, we could have the debate like, is water a human right? I think so.

SPEAKER_02 47:50

Absolutely. Well, and that's certainly a natural resource that's being stolen and resold to us.

SPEAKER_00 47:55

Certainly, yeah, there's no doubt about that. Like the whole water wars that happened was like started 10 years ago or something like that that I heard about uh is pretty pretty bananas. Uh, even even even the farmland, you know, that's actually actively being bought up right now by a lot of different groups and stuff is pretty uh suspect as well. I just say my my point is that it's real easy to pin the blame on your ordinary average person who doesn't have a choice in in the matter very often, right? Like you see through the bullshit, you know, but like to scapegoat just the ordinary average person who has to drink water in order to survive. How am I gonna get it? Um, you know, I try and use glass myself uh for water for a lot of reasons, phthalates being one of them uh as well. But I mean, we all have we all have to somehow survive as well.

SPEAKER_02 48:44

So it's just an interesting time to be alive with all these conflicting uh you know the the reality is that most people live extremely like overly productive lives to the point that they don't feel like they have a choice but to pay for convenience to keep being that productive, right? So, you know, when people when I talk about like you know, people purchasing uh like one-time used plastic bottled water, right? Why does that usually happen? Because you're so busy that you just need to grab it and go.

SPEAKER_01 49:17

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 49:18

And so getting people to a space of awareness of how much the price of convenience really is because of how much people are pushing themselves to meet that ridiculous model of uh like productivity that's been placed upon us by those business and corporate worlds is a huge part of how we'll be able to change whether or not we have we feel like we have to buy in to those industries. Um, but of course, you know, there's changes that have to be made there anyway. Uh so the other example would be, you know, why why can't those companies start to choose to use a different material?

SPEAKER_01 49:54

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 49:55

Okay. Uh I have a straw downstairs that I have cleaned and reused. So probably 20 times at this point that's made of agave. It's just as effective and permanent feeling as plastic, right? So, or the there's a company that does like cartoned water. Sure. All sorts of, you know, there's choices in that too. It's just really getting people to a place where they feel like they have a choice. Um, and you know, the reality is that unfortunately in this economy, people also don't feel like they have much of a choice. They go for the thing that's least expensive as opposed to the thing that like stands behind their values because they're in a survival mindset economically. Um, so you know, that stuff, like you said, that we really uh on the smaller level can't have as much uh control over, aside from us actively uh, you know, as a collective trying to visualize and engage with a belief that those changes can occur. That is the biggest problem at a collective level is that sense of hopelessness that's being imbued into a lot of people, that the change can't happen, or that you know, the the ecology movement can't make it, or that humanity and the earth can't both survive together, and what that would mean. You know, I think if you ask the average person if the option for the earth and humanity to survive was presented, regardless of what that meant, is that what they would choose for the future? Most people would say yes to that, right? But that we're also at a place where we've got to realize that the world is sick, right? That we as human beings have made the world sick, and that we've got to take conscious responsibility for that, even at micro levels. Um, and and what that means as an archetypal awareness for us about even our own personal relationship with ourself and whether we believe in ourselves. Like if we don't believe in the ability for humanity to do better and really change and evolve to a place where humanity and the earth can survive, it says a lot about our internal relationship with our own self as far as what we believe is possible for us, uh, and whether we're letting those sort of narratives limit us or even shape collective belief systems that take us in a direction that nobody wants.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

Yeah, I mean, that's pretty interesting. I'll uh to your point about you know, people accepting, you know, being a part of the world and also surviving, right? Like I'm a humanist, so I don't like I think it's uh it's we we all have we should all try to go on. We should try to continue to perpetuate humanity as much as is humanly possible, and also of course, take some responsibility for the planet that we're living on, of course. Uh that said, when when you don't have options, you know, you you have limited uh you have limited choices. Um, so a big thing for me is like really appreciating and admiring human beings, you know, loving on ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 52:51

Yeah, for the part for the part you do the best you can.

SPEAKER_00 52:54

What else can you do? Like exactly instead of like shame or guilt or like this is your fault because you you know did what society told you to do. You can't blame me after you know you shoved me into a box in a corner and said, This is how you're gonna do it. You're gonna sit here and do it this way, and then be like, now, but now it's your fault, you know what I mean? Like, that's not that's not fair, you know what I mean? Like, that's not cool at all.

SPEAKER_02 53:17

You have to like that's how the victim becomes the rebel, aka the hero, because the rebel also always thinks it's the hero.

SPEAKER_00 53:24

But you know, that well, the narcissist always thinks it's the hero or the victim, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, in our society that these types of ideals are really perpetuated pretty heavily, too, so that people kind of I think start to get a sick sense of themselves and also of other human beings, like you were saying, like the the earth has to go on and humanity has to go on. Like we're kind of presented with this either or I think if you surveyed 10 people on the streets, they'd be like, overpopulation, humans are bad, we're evil, we're terrible, we're destroying the planet, we need to go.

SPEAKER_02 53:55

Well, and isn't that interesting? Because look what happened. I agree with you. The average person does give that answer, and look what's happening. There's a there was something that came up that started decreasing the population. So is that a synoptic endeavor, or is that just because the collective believes that we're the problem?

SPEAKER_00 54:10

Well, I believe in self-fulfilling process prop prophecy, but I mean, when when you test the water too, you know, like there's there's other very physical factors too that to kind of point toward. So it's you know, like, but yeah, that obviously that mentality it doesn't help, it just perpetuates the problem even more. Um, so solutionary thinking is more important now than God it's ever been. Uh, but it's also really complicated too, right? Like, and mentally speaking, when people are coming from these worldviews where they're trained that they're a victim and uh that everyone else is um is less uh important than they are or or is unimportant as a whole, I think it just it's just a sick mentality that uh is is created.

SPEAKER_02 54:56

Uh well and you see the do you see the duality or the paradox in there that creates a huge fracture in people within their psyche, within their spirit, where not only so they have no control and they're a victim, but everything is also their fault all at once.

SPEAKER_00 55:11

Yeah, it's double speak.

SPEAKER_02 55:12

Well, yes, exactly. But that is also what uh so I refer to it as ping-ponging when people are like really stuck in that duality mindset because of belief systems like that, that are like that's a large part of why I work with belief systems with people too, is to get them to realize when they have two different belief systems that don't work with each other, right? So you can't be a victim and think that you can change things, like you can't be a victim who thinks that you have no control and no power and have a desire or will to change things. You have to pick one, basically. Uh so the another one that's from that more like religiosity standpoint that I always ask people is you know, if you come from a religious background that taught you that the reason you're here on this planet is to suffer or as a punishment, is that what you want? No, right? But if it's what you're getting, because you believe that that's what life is for, you have to be willing to check yourself on that and say, well, that's my fault. I take responsibility for accepting a belief system that's making me suffer because I bel I believed and subconsciously integrated a belief that life is is is meant for that, that it's a punishment, that that's the only reason we're here. So that this is one of those more like orthodox belief systems I approach with people that can actually be a generational trauma. Like people will people will not even think about it until I bring it up with them of like, well, how many generations of your family were were of that orthodox sense or belief, whether or not you are in this lifetime. Guess what? It's still neuroplastically embedded in your DNA that that that belief is there because of how many generations it it developed in from a DNA standpoint. Um, but you know, those are those simpler beliefs that can really shape a reality for us that we're not wanting, and getting people to that place where they have a willingness to see it and accept it and and actively evolve the belief system to something they actually want is I I believe even at like a small level, what makes you know a huge difference. Uh, there's a ripple effect with that.

SPEAKER_01 57:21

Certainly.

SPEAKER_02 57:22

Small things have huge power if we are willing to have the awareness of the connection between the micro and the macro, and to like really, really take conscious responsibility for being the change we want to see in the world.

SPEAKER_00 57:34

Yeah, that's good. I agree with that 100%. Totally a butterfly effect. Every little tiny bit, every eyelash movement. It could eventually become scared of that too.

SPEAKER_02 57:47

Right? If you if you realize that the power in that, there's also something that makes it that that makes more some people want to not even like breathe on days because they're like, wow, that may that might make a hurricane somewhere. So there's there's gotta be a level of like, okay, I'm okay with my muchness and I won't be perfect at it, but I'm learning how to how to be better at it.

SPEAKER_00 58:08

Yeah, you might destroy a few universes on your way to uh creating uh a beautiful uh masterpiece. But that's uh but yeah, I mean, I think it's all part of that learning process, as you're saying, and you know, we all have to go forward. There's no like there's no divorcing the actions from their consequences, it just isn't gonna happen the way that it is. And I if I if I would have had more information later, and then I can look back, you know, in the future to now and be like, wow, if I would have known this or if I would have had these experiences, then I would have a lot more perspective at that point. It's just a matter of like consciously uh check, like you're saying, checking yourself, having that level of awareness. What is it that you can do, even if it is a tiny little ripple, then that is going to make a huge difference. And the more people uh begin to take smaller actions, right? Like the bigger of an impact that does have overall, for sure. I couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_02 59:08

Yeah, well, and and just really also getting people to a place where they don't avoid change because of like crazy standards of all or nothingness with things is another thing I deal with with deconstructing away from that duality mindset, is people will not approach a change for themselves because if they can't do it overnight, they aren't good enough to make that change. And so I would say, you know, that's one that everyone can kind of think about is like what are ways you can take small increments or steps to changing something instead of feeling like, okay, if I don't have the capacity to do this overnight, I'm not good enough. That doesn't happen for anyone. Well, that's not true. Hypnotherapy is actually good for that in some cases, but that you know, for most people, if you're trying to, you know, change a behavior, it's not gonna happen overnight. And there's got to be like some sort of willingness to have a kind standard for yourself where you allow the change to happen over time and imperfectly. Uh, because no one's perfect, but that duality mindset has a lot of people in a space where if I can't do it perfectly, I won't do it at all. You're never gonna grow if you don't try it at all, right? So it's that's a space of invitation for people as far as if you believe you're gonna do it imperfectly and that's keeping you from doing it, that is a very silly reason to keep from doing it. I let that be a reason why I didn't try to learn new languages for years. Um, but you know, it's just a way that people can kind of get in tune with those self-standards too that aren't working and be willing to kind of like own that if someone else was trying imperfectly, they'd have respect for it and that they can do that for themselves too.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:53

Yeah, that's really good. Uh, one of my favorite mantras is from the book, The Instant Millionaire. It's just every day in every way I'm getting better and better. Super simple uh mantra. I would always uh chant that to myself whenever I was doing like some mind-numbing sort of uh shitty uh labor task or carrying a boat down the hill. You know, it's a really good time to just kind of embed that. Um that's one I come to every single day, right? Like it's like, yeah, maybe you're not, maybe you don't have six-pack abs by next Thursday. But you know, hold your horses and do the things you're you know you need to do. And if you fall off, just keep going a little bit, just kaizen, right? Like uh a little bit at a time, passo.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:33

And also, why do you believe that you need to have six-pack abs to feel good about yourself? Is another one, right? There's uh, you know, from even from a outside culture perspective, there are loads of cultures who actually believe that heftiness is a denotation of wealth, for example.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:49

Right. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:52

These all become like, you know, it's about for me now, it's about molding the mind in a perspective that allows self-acceptance in the present and can make choice points about if it wants that because it really wants it for itself, or because it wants that thinking that that's what is that like societal checkbox, sure something sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:12

True identity, really. Getting back to that. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean, wow. So, yeah, so you are busy, you got a lot of cool stuff going on. I will make sure everybody has uh links to your website and Instagram and all that. Uh, send me any other links that you want me to share. Uh, you have anything specific? Um, this is not gonna come out tomorrow. Uh, I know you mentioned that you had a is that replay? Is there gonna be a replay of your upcoming uh webinar? Uh Mitchell.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:40

Uh you know, I'm probably gonna make it like a once-a-month thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:44

Okay. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:45

So uh, you know, that being said, uh, people can always schedule an initial consultation for, you know, holistic business coaching or consultancy too. Um, if you know, whether you're an entrepreneur that's looking to have a better awareness of those things, or if you're someone who works in a corporate entity and you want to change the way you are engaging with that environment. Um, doesn't matter whether it's an individual or or like a corporate group or a group, basically. So I do that. I'm gonna be doing that once a month. Um, but I have also loads of sort of like free resources or starting points of information on my website too that people can uh look into.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:27

Yeah, that's awesome. Uh be sure to put that link in the show notes. There's all kinds of stuff. There's links, newsletters, uh, business services, and uh some cool uh different guest appearances and all kinds of stuff on there. Uh so yeah, so good for you, good for you for taking your knowledge and using it for wholeness and wellness and uh and making your ripple in in the world, putting your dent in the universe. We all appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:55

I'm trying to make fun waves.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:57

Yeah, yeah. Ludic conviviality is what we uh talk a lot about, and that's uh that's that's playfulness, basically, what you're talking about with work, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:05

Oh yeah. Well, guess what? Gotta make space for irrationality in work then, because that in our child, that playfulness only comes out in an irrational sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:15

So oh yeah. Oh, I know all about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:17

I agree completely. We need way more playfulness in work environments.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:20

Yeah, absolutely. It's a big, it's a big part of uh of creativity for sure. Well, cool. Well, thank you so much for coming and being a part of the show. Uh, we'll have to get you to come back around and hop on, like we'll do a specific, a more specificer type of thing, but it was a great introduction. I really appreciate your time.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:38

Yeah, thank you very much for the opportunity to speak to your audience and to be on the show and and align with you know what you guys talk about. Again, I really appreciate that you're imbuing that sense of of practicality uh into spirituality and and daily life and and how we make it work for ourselves as individuals, not necessarily as like a cut and paste method for everyone. So thank you for what you do.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:01

Absolutely. I'm happy, I'm honored to be able to do it. It's awesome. All right, well, cool. We'll see everybody next time. Thanks so much for checking it out. Leave a review, and uh, we're on all the platforms. Thanks, my friends at Content Safe. They distribute all over the internet, even where uh, you know, like even where QAnon is. All right, everybody, we'll see you next time. Peace out. All right.